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merry
  
  
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Post by merry »

Have I Got News For You
@haveigotnews
·
Sep 28
Kwasi Kwarteng receives shortest email in recorded history:



imf.jpg
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Patience
 
 
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Post by Patience »

I like this one….
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Post by OurCreature »

King John was not a good man;
He had his little ways.
And sometimes no-one spoke to him
For days and days and days.


While 1066 And All That describes his losing all the Crown Jewels in the wash (accompanied by a pic of King John in his underwear arguing with a washerwoman) as 'Utter Incompetence'.
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Post by eccles »

:)
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Post by OurCreature »

:lol: :clapping

Much better than Krazy Karting, Eccs!
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Post by eccles »

Your name has stuck though OC. He'll always be Krazy Karting to me, same as Patience's Wee Nippy.
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Post by merry »

Oh he is Krazy Karting in the merry house now and always will be :D
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Post by Patience »

Screeching U-Turn by the Krazy chancellor. The 45p tax cut has been removed. Only yesterday our UnTrusst worth’s pm was saying it was staying and there were no plans to remove it. Too many Tory MPs were publicly saying it was wrong. But, hey, she is not afraid of difficult decisions.

Oh, wait….
M
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Post by OurCreature »

You turn if you want to..............I'll trot along behind you.................
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Post by Furby »

Could it be they did it all on purpose. Say 6 bad things so when you drop one you save the day and people forget you ruined the day and don't notice the other 5 things.

And meanwhile the bank of england were forced to more qe which they were stopping and are independent so can't be asked to just to help the government borrowing requirments.

I think the 45p tax is a bit of a red herring. Obviously it's a bad look but in the scheme of things it shouldn't have been enough to spook markets so much. The energy price guarantee would worry me if I was working in Canary wharf. At the moment it's giving people 1000 off energy bills and was to rise to 4000 in January. But no one knows where gas prices will go and if they go to 100k each governs t has guaranteed to pay for 2 years. And if the cheaper prices mean people cut back less and we end up with power cuts that has the same effect as lockdown on the economy as pretty much nothing moves without electric these days.
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Post by OurCreature »

I think the 45p tax is a bit of a red herring.
So do I. It would have cost around £2 billion a year. It wasn't that which got the Bank of England anxious about the effect on pension funds due to the plunge in the value of gilts; it was the general loss of confidence in the financial credibility of HMG as evidenced by the run on the £ and the drop in the stock markets.

I watched The Papers last night on the BBC news channel, and the two people they had there were rendered more or less speechless by the actions of Truss and Kwarteng. They simply couldn't believe how it was possible to misread the politics of it so badly; their view was that Ms Truss has succeeded in setting Labour up for a Blair-style landslide election victory in just 2 months of her premiership and that the Tories won't be able to retrieve the situation. I am not so sure about that, but we shall see. One of the 2 commentators is a Parliamentary journalist of great experience and he was really shocked by Truss and Kwarteng's mishandling of the mini budget/fiscal event.
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Post by Wildrover »

As I said in a different thread it was reminiscent of Michael Foot's "longest suicide note in history" manifesto in 1983. The problem with the abolition of the 45p rate is less to do with the policy than the timing - effectively it's using budget to help those who need it least in a time of crisis. It has some validity if the 45% tax payers are going to use that money as discretionary spending and have more meals and buy new kitchens but that's not what's going to happen here - it will get put into savings to guard against a potential future drop in their standard of living. Hence it will be of little value in avoiding recession. It's also clearly stupid - it's incredibly selfish to think you deserve an extra £100 a week when some people are struggling to feed their children and heat their homes and I think very few 45% tax payers would feel that way. So it's a policy that's going to appeal to almost no-one.

On the other hand I do think the top rate of tax is too high in this country - with the additional 2% excess National Insurance charge the actual top rate is 47%. It was 40% all through the 90s and 00s until Gordon Brown cynically raised it to 50% the month before he got kicked out of office in 2010 and the 40% rate felt about right. I paid the highest rate for the last 15 years of my career - I didn't begrudge it the first 5 years but from 2010 onwards when the rate reached over 50% I thought it was completely unreasonable - why should anyone get more than half the money they've worked for taken by the state, especially when that group gets the least back from the state. I just ploughed more and more into my pension and some other tax avoidance measures to get my taxable income down to the 50% limit as did everyone else I know in the same situation. This explains why increasing tax rates doesn't always generate more revenue - previously I'd have paid 40% tax on my earnings above the limit but because the rate was so high I took avoidance measures and paid zero tax. However if a government wants to reduce the top rate of tax, it can only be done in relatively buoyant times.

The other thing that I find interesting is that the Tories are always accused of favouring the well off. One look at historical tax contributions shows that's incorrect. In the 00/01 tax year the top 5% of earners paid 41% of all income tax; by Brown's last year as PM in 10/11 this had risen a couple of % to 43%; last year this had risen to 51%. i.e. the income tax contribution of the top 5% of earners has risen 4x as fast under the Tories as under Labour.
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Post by OurCreature »

the Tories are always accused of favouring the well off
As WR says, this isn't always true. Individual lifetime pension pots have been hammered during the last 15 years or so as WR has informed us several times. And that statistic about the top 5% of taxpayers paying around 50% of income tax receipts is scary when you learn that more than half of those 50% receipts are paid by the top 1%. I remember remarking when Spreadsheet Phil was Chancellor that such a statistic should keep him awake at nights - I think it is a very dangerous high level of revenue dependency on a very small and very mobile income group; it's a good thing they are patriotic enough to stay and be taxed in the UK rather than push off to somewhere more welcoming tax-wise. IIRC WR has been pushed to annoyance so much that one time he considered moving to somewhere nice like Switzerland if things became worse for him tax-wise in the UK.
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Post by Wildrover »

That's very true OC - we did give it serious consideration. When Brown, in addition to raising the top rate of tax, stole my personal tax allowance creating a 60% tax band between £100K and £120K I thought it was time to go and I would have done had Brown won the 2010 election. The Tories were an even bigger disappointment though - 12 years down the line the anomalous £100-120K tax band is still there and Osborne clamped down on pension contributions for high earners.

I still remember an angry contribution I made to a ridiculous Polly Toynbee article in the Guardian stating that high earners were not paying their fair share of tax. At the time the average income tax contribution of the fabled 1% was around 50x the average tax contribution so I told Toynbee I'd always paid my fair share and asked her if I was paying my tax and 50 other people's tax and that was too little, how many other people's tax should I be paying for it to be fair.
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Post by eccles »

This guy has an interesting and informative take on the topic:
https://brexitbites.quora.com/Turbulence-in-the-markets
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Post by eccles »

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Post by Furby »

Kwasi kwartang is showing his sums on Halloween despite having said no he would wait until end of November. So we don't have to wait as long to see where he thinks he's getting the money for tax cuts from.

It's a bad sign keep u turning even if the u turn is back to a better position than previously because even when something good is announced we can't rely on it not being u turned on before we see it happen.

I don't understand why he has to wait even until Halloween. Shoudnt he know the sums already.
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Post by Furby »

The bank of england are in panic mode again today buying up bonds to save the UK.

It's gone past what I understand now and I always thought bonds were nice things. Nsi even stopped selling them as they were too nice and they didn't want ordinary people to have index linked savings and premium bonds have a limit. But it seems it's all a mess when people want to sell these other bonds.

What I did wonder is where the bank of England gets its money from and if they have secret hidden money trees at threadneedle street to do all this saving the UK's day couldn't we have just used that money in the first place and saved all this mess.
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Post by Panikos »

I'm with Furby in that this is now beyond what I can truthfully understand and judge (quantum economics?) but we can judge u-turns as being a bad sign. If the plane is going down the last thing you want is to hear the pilot waffling over what to do next.
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Post by OurCreature »

I don't understand it either. I think it is headless chicken time so far as the BoE, Treasury etc are concerned. If the fallout from all this (assuming there is a medium-term fallout) impoverishes us all it should be wipe-out time for the Tories at the next General Election.
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